Gros test Carbon art 2009 + C3 fins

mistral98

Je vais resserrer un peu les straps arrières; pour que le pied soit un peu plus à l'extérieur. En ce moment mon orteil touche le deuxième strap.

Vincent

mistral98 a écrit:

Je vais resserrer un peu les straps arrières; pour que le pied soit un peu plus à l'extérieur. En ce moment mon orteil touche le deuxième strap.

Alors serre !

Davide

mistral98 a écrit:

Surprenant la Carbone art.

J'ai mis à l'eau aujourd'hui la CA58 pour la première fois.

Au début de la session PD100 6.4 dans 22 -30 nds dans un plan d'eau bien délicat...planche volage, et lanque de contrôle dans un plan d'eau bien défoncé avec de la houle qui casse.

Puis passage à la CA58 en gardant la 6.4. La planche à l'air de se tenir loin et est stable dans un plan d'eau diffcile. Un changement radical par rapport à la PAtrik.
LA CA a plus de contrôle; même un sentiment qu'elle est aseptisée; donc du contrôle et moins de fatigue. Elle met en confiance même dans les rafales; peu de sensation de vitesse.
Peu volage dans les passages de houle; elle est facile à l'abattée et procure de la confiance.

Une vrai planche de baston, qui ne bronche pas.

Le strap arrière s'enfile plus facilement que sur une Patrik.

En attente de conditions pour une mesure GPS.

Bit of an Apple and Oranges comparison :shock:

. The Patrik 100 Slalom is at least a size up in respect to the Carbon art 58, if not two. Should compare with the Patrik 92, or Isonic 86. Too early for me to comment on the Patrik 100, but with 2014 6.6 HSM GPS it is way more stable, seemingly faster (hit 32 with no effort), at my weight I can see using a 7.8 on it with no problem.

Somebody else commented on the CA 52 vs 58. The CA 52 is not particularly easier to sail than the 58, and both are too long too feel confortable in choppy and confused seas. The 52 is slightly easier to control in extreme conditions but it is touchier in heavy chop where it can catch even worse than the 58. It is easy to recover because it is so narrow, but it still a big minus for control. Both very narrow, with bulky tails, and sharp tall rails. Limited effective sail range, 52 good with 5.5 or 6.0; for CA 58 no much more than 6.6, 7.3 way too big and it quickly looses upwind capability when sailing overpowered.

Vincent

Davide a écrit:

mistral98 a écrit:

Surprenant la Carbone art.

J'ai mis à l'eau aujourd'hui la CA58 pour la première fois.

Au début de la session PD100 6.4 dans 22 -30 nds dans un plan d'eau bien délicat...planche volage, et lanque de contrôle dans un plan d'eau bien défoncé avec de la houle qui casse.

Puis passage à la CA58 en gardant la 6.4. La planche à l'air de se tenir loin et est stable dans un plan d'eau diffcile. Un changement radical par rapport à la PAtrik.
LA CA a plus de contrôle; même un sentiment qu'elle est aseptisée; donc du contrôle et moins de fatigue. Elle met en confiance même dans les rafales; peu de sensation de vitesse.
Peu volage dans les passages de houle; elle est facile à l'abattée et procure de la confiance.

Une vrai planche de baston, qui ne bronche pas.

Le strap arrière s'enfile plus facilement que sur une Patrik.

En attente de conditions pour une mesure GPS.

Bit of an Apple and Oranges comparison :shock:

. The Patrik 100 Slalom is at least a size up in respect to the Carbon art 58, if not two. Should compare with the Patrik 92, or Isonic 86. Too early for me to comment on the Patrik 100, but with 2014 6.6 HSM GPS it is way more stable, seemingly faster (hit 32 with no effort), at my weight I can see using a 7.8 on it with no problem.

Somebody else commented on the CA 52 vs 58. The CA 52 is not particularly easier to sail than the 58, and both are too long too feel confortable in choppy and confused seas. The 52 is slightly easier to control in extreme conditions but it is touchier in heavy chop where it can catch even worse than the 58. It is easy to recover because it is so narrow, but it still a big minus for control. Both very narrow, with bulky tails, and sharp tall rails. Limited effective sail range, 52 good with 5.5 or 6.0; for CA 58 no much more than 6.6, 7.3 way too big and it quickly looses upwind capability when sailing overpowered.

Davide is back. Obviously he had a bad experience with the boss of CA or Phil Mcgain. And each time we are talking about CA, he's coming back with the same old story. Didn't you have the dicount you expect ? You should talk with Phil...

There is something you don't know Dodo (your other pseudo, right ?) : A guy called Pierre Moretti, AKA 151 on this forum, did an exeptional Defi Wind in 2015 with his CA 52 from 2008 or 2009 and a Vapor 5.5 at the same age. He was a way much faster and easier than all the PWA pros. The wind was blasting over 40 knots and most of the time over 45. Few days after, I had 5 to 6 inquiries form sponsored racers who wanted to buy a 52 or 55, whatever the year, whatever the price. There are a lot of good boards out there, but when strong winds and big chop are coming, small CA, up to 62, are certainly one of the best choices.

mistral98

Essai hier.
Au relevé gps , milles nautique dans le chenal, idem que la pd 100.
La CA passe tranquille , moins fatiguante.
Erreur de ma part, j’ài encore mis un 32, et...un poil trop petit.

J’espère mettre le 34 aujourd’hui.......un peu de trans chenal au programme Lolop ....trop dure comme session.....tout en étant calé en ack ...

Optimisation hauteur de wish et pied de mat , en cours....

DELTA

Une explication.
les OFO des deux boards sont carrément différents.( en dimension)

Davide

Vincent a écrit:

Davide a écrit:

mistral98 a écrit:

Surprenant la Carbone art.

J'ai mis à l'eau aujourd'hui la CA58 pour la première fois.

Au début de la session PD100 6.4 dans 22 -30 nds dans un plan d'eau bien délicat...planche volage, et lanque de contrôle dans un plan d'eau bien défoncé avec de la houle qui casse.

Puis passage à la CA58 en gardant la 6.4. La planche à l'air de se tenir loin et est stable dans un plan d'eau diffcile. Un changement radical par rapport à la PAtrik.
LA CA a plus de contrôle; même un sentiment qu'elle est aseptisée; donc du contrôle et moins de fatigue. Elle met en confiance même dans les rafales; peu de sensation de vitesse.
Peu volage dans les passages de houle; elle est facile à l'abattée et procure de la confiance.

Une vrai planche de baston, qui ne bronche pas.

Le strap arrière s'enfile plus facilement que sur une Patrik.

En attente de conditions pour une mesure GPS.

Bit of an Apple and Oranges comparison :shock:

. The Patrik 100 Slalom is at least a size up in respect to the Carbon art 58, if not two. Should compare with the Patrik 92, or Isonic 86. Too early for me to comment on the Patrik 100, but with 2014 6.6 HSM GPS it is way more stable, seemingly faster (hit 32 with no effort), at my weight I can see using a 7.8 on it with no problem.

Somebody else commented on the CA 52 vs 58. The CA 52 is not particularly easier to sail than the 58, and both are too long too feel confortable in choppy and confused seas. The 52 is slightly easier to control in extreme conditions but it is touchier in heavy chop where it can catch even worse than the 58. It is easy to recover because it is so narrow, but it still a big minus for control. Both very narrow, with bulky tails, and sharp tall rails. Limited effective sail range, 52 good with 5.5 or 6.0; for CA 58 no much more than 6.6, 7.3 way too big and it quickly looses upwind capability when sailing overpowered.

Davide is back. Obviously he had a bad experience with the boss of CA or Phil Mcgain. And each time we are talking about CA, he's coming back with the same old story. Didn't you have the dicount you expect ? You should talk with Phil...

There is something you don't know Dodo (your other pseudo, right ?) : A guy called Pierre Moretti, AKA 151 on this forum, did an exeptional Defi Wind in 2015 with his CA 52 from 2008 or 2009 and a Vapor 5.5 at the same age. He was a way much faster and easier than all the PWA pros. The wind was blasting over 40 knots and most of the time over 45. Few days after, I had 5 to 6 inquiries form sponsored racers who wanted to buy a 52 or 55, whatever the year, whatever the price. There are a lot of good boards out there, but when strong winds and big chop are coming, small CA, up to 62, are certainly one of the best choices.

Well actually the old story is the disinformation that goes around regarding CA boards on this forum. I am sure it was not intentional but comparing a CA 58 with a Patrik 100 is a bit pointless, and I was just pointing out that the more sensible comparison is with a Patrik 92 (or even 87).

As far as performance goes I still enjoy my CA 52. Like all the CA boards I have been on (52, 58, 62) it is tricky in heavy chop if you point it downwind, it catches, and it really only goes if it is very overpowered. Zero slide, take away the power and these boards stop.

The 52 is a fun little toy, although there are better small boards to pick from on the market. The "much faster and easier than what PWA sailors use" claim is a bit disconcerting, although I heard it before from you. It must be that PWA riders, sponsors, builders, are just blind or stupid. All they have to do to have a superior board is to copy the CAs. One wonders why they don't.

Vincent

Davide a écrit:

Well actually the old story is the disinformation that goes around regarding CA boards on this forum.

The 52 is a fun little toy, although there are better small boards to pick from on the market. The "much faster and easier than what PWA sailors use" claim is a bit disconcerting, although I heard it before from you. It must be that PWA riders, sponsors, builders, are just blind or stupid. All they have to do to have a superior board is to copy the CAs. One wonders why they don't.

Finian Maynard bought CA speed and put RRD stickers on them, few years ago. And some local sponsored racers are buying used CA if they know they will have to use 6.3 or smaller sails for a race like Defi Wind. Just a fact.

Brands are not stupid. They just don't need to develop that kind of board for the market. PWA is more 7.8 and up. Once a year 7.0. and 6.2 or less once every three years. And very few people around the world will buy that kind of board.

Everybody will agree the 98 from RRD is a way much better than the 90. Fanatic Racers will choose the 99 over the 90, even for super strong winds. SB 90 is excellent and the smallest 87 not. Patrick 92 is an excellent board. The 87 is very tricky, with a small range of use and terrible in choppy conditions. Angulo and JP have nothing in their range under 60 cm wide.

CA is the only brand which develop small boards for strong winds and choppy water like Kanaha. Like Maui Sails is the only brand which produce 5.1, 4.7 and even 4.3 racing sails. CA is able to do that, because they don't have to stock anything. They make to order only.

So please, let us know what is better in strong winds, because we need that kind of boards her. I'm talking about very strong winds and not the 30+/- from the bay area.

You should really try a latest CA, let's say from 2009 or newer. With the good fin; And you will feel the difference. And please, call Phil, you should talk with him to solve your problem.

Davide

Vincent a écrit:

Davide a écrit:

Well actually the old story is the disinformation that goes around regarding CA boards on this forum.

The 52 is a fun little toy, although there are better small boards to pick from on the market. The "much faster and easier than what PWA sailors use" claim is a bit disconcerting, although I heard it before from you. It must be that PWA riders, sponsors, builders, are just blind or stupid. All they have to do to have a superior board is to copy the CAs. One wonders why they don't.

Finian Maynard bought CA speed and put RRD stickers on them, few years ago. And some local sponsored racers are buying used CA if they know they will have to use 6.3 or smaller sails for a race like Defi Wind. Just a fact.

Brands are not stupid. They just don't need to develop that kind of board for the market. PWA is more 7.8 and up. Once a year 7.0. and 6.2 or less once every three years. And very few people around the world will buy that kind of board.

Everybody will agree the 98 from RRD is a way much better than the 90. Fanatic Racers will choose the 99 over the 90, even for super strong winds. SB 90 is excellent and the smallest 87 not. Patrick 92 is an excellent board. The 87 is very tricky, with a small range of use and terrible in choppy conditions. Angulo and JP have nothing in their range under 60 cm wide.

CA is the only brand which develop small boards for strong winds and choppy water like Kanaha. Like Maui Sails is the only brand which produce 5.1, 4.7 and even 4.3 racing sails. CA is able to do that, because they don't have to stock anything. They make to order only.

So please, let us know what is better in strong winds, because we need that kind of boards her. I'm talking about very strong winds and not the 30+/- from the bay area.

You should really try a latest CA, let's say from 2009 or newer. With the good fin; And you will feel the difference. And please, call Phil, you should talk with him to solve your problem.

Vincent, I won't really enter a discussion around seemingly silly claims such as "faster than any PWA board" or 'Patrik 87 is trick ... and terrible in choppy conditions" or "CA is the only brand which develops small boards". You are biased in favor of CA boards, and that is ok. Really, enjoy them. Not even sure why we are having this discussion (oh, right, I forgot, you kind of called me names after I dared pointing out that a comparison PD100 vs CA 58 was not the most appropriate). For myself I got rid of the CA 58, and the 52 (which is 2009 by the way and is graced by Tectonic Talon and Fury, and a pre-prod Vector Volt 28) is next to go. I keep my boards a long time but it will be PD 87 or IS 80

mistral98

Hello Davide,

Il ne me semble pas possible de comparer la CA58 et la Patrik 100.

Mon retour va dans le sens où l'on fait évoluer sa session en changeant de planche par rapport à la limite du pratiquant et des conditions changeantes.
Prendre une CA58 à la la suite de la Patrik m'amène une expérience personnelle où j'exprime un contraste non dénué de sens; car au final je tiens le même grément plus facilement sur une planche plus petite.

Lorsque je passe en CA58; les pros en DW restent en 110 et 7.8 ; un autre monde.

Carbon art se démarque des productions de chez Cobra très nettement. De quoi garder ses planches de longues années; dans ce monde du tout jetable. :roll:

Vincent

Davide a écrit:

Vincent, I won't really enter a discussion around seemingly silly claims such as "faster than any PWA board" or 'Patrik 87 is trick ... and terrible in choppy conditions" or "CA is the only brand which develops small boards".D

Who said point 1 ?

Just check point 2. 92 is a way much better and more versatile than the 87. Any time.

Point 3 What other brand developp (new models every year or even every two year) slalom boards under 60 wide ?

All the 65+ on the market are very good. And CA are not faster when you need your 7.8, your 8.6 or your 9.5. Not faster, but not slower. In the game. With a better construction. Someting you don't need when you are a pro and you can pick the board you want (the lightest) in the stock and make it tuned, especially bottom and rails by a pro shaper.

When you need 7.0 and down, it's another story, just because big brands don't spent money to develop such boards. The 87 you love is a 4 or 5 years old design. Many guys on thos forum would be happy to find an Isonic 80 from 2008, which seems to be better than the latest design.

As you say, you use 2009 CA boards, which are 7 years old design !!! You should try latest one and or put a proper fin (28 Volt is a way too small on the 52) on your old boards.

And nobody compares Patrick 100 and the 58 here...

Davide

Vincent a écrit:

...
As you say, you use 2009 CA boards, which are 7 years old design !!! You should try latest one and or put a proper fin (28 Volt is a way too small on the 52) on your old boards.

Again I am not going to answer the nonsense about "big" brands, especially when it comes to the absurdity that "they" do not know how to design small slalom boards ... but at least be consistent: 2009 was one of the vintages you recommended a couple of posts above and claimed to be faster than what PWA sailors used at the Demi ... and I am sorry but ... do you own a 52? If you do it is hard to believe that you think 28 is too small. If you have a CA 52 maybe you should try it, it works perfectly fine with it. CA 52 is actually quite happy with 28-32, 34 Talon too big (I am 70 Kg). Relatively narrow fin range, but the board has also a very a narrow sail range, 5.5-6.0 are good, anything bigger, my next sail up is 6.6, is quite a no-no.

Vincent

Davide a écrit:

Vincent a écrit:

...
As you say, you use 2009 CA boards, which are 7 years old design !!! You should try latest one and or put a proper fin (28 Volt is a way too small on the 52) on your old boards.

Again I am not going to answer the nonsense about "big" brands, especially when it comes to the absurdity that they do not know how to design small slalom boards ... but at least be consistent: 2009 was one of the vintages you recommended a couple of posts above and claimed to be faster than what PWA sailors used at the Demi ... and I am sorry but ... do you own a 52? If you do it is hard to believe that you think 28 is too small. If you have a CA 52 maybe you should try it, it works perfectly fine with it. CA 52 is actually quite happy with 28-32, 34 Talon too big (I am 70 Kg). Relatively narrow fin range, but the board has also a very a narrow sail range, 5.5-6.0 are good, anything bigger, my next sail up is 6.6, is quite a no-no.

YES, I have sailed the 52 many times. 30 was the size for choppy situations with 5.0 up to 6.0. 32 was fine with 6.3 and 6.7. The board sits above chop ans you stay in full control. You don't loose any speed vs. 28. Fine with Tect GW or even better, C3 Venom or Sting. Never tried with the fury on the 52. I'm 87 kg.

Considering your weight, you can use 30 with 5.0 up to 6.0 and 32 with 6.0/6.3.

A friend of mine made design a slalom 50. A top board for 6.0 down to 4.9. No limit ! 28 was the good fin for this one !

You should directly ask to 151 what he thinks about his 52 and how he managed to keep pros behind him during the Defi. The guy is excellent anyway...

And even "top brands" need time on water to develop strong winds boards. And if the don't do that, they don't achieve anything consistent. Marketing is not enough...

And CA slalom boards are always getting better and better, year after year. Slowly, step by step, but always better. Because of the time spent on the water, not in a marketing office... And I'm sure the latest 53 or 54 is a way much better than the 09' 52.

Davide

Vincent a écrit:

Davide a écrit:

Vincent a écrit:

...
As you say, you use 2009 CA boards, which are 7 years old design !!! You should try latest one and or put a proper fin (28 Volt is a way too small on the 52) on your old boards.

Again I am not going to answer the nonsense about "big" brands, especially when it comes to the absurdity that they do not know how to design small slalom boards ... but at least be consistent: 2009 was one of the vintages you recommended a couple of posts above and claimed to be faster than what PWA sailors used at the Demi ... and I am sorry but ... do you own a 52? If you do it is hard to believe that you think 28 is too small. If you have a CA 52 maybe you should try it, it works perfectly fine with it. CA 52 is actually quite happy with 28-32, 34 Talon too big (I am 70 Kg). Relatively narrow fin range, but the board has also a very a narrow sail range, 5.5-6.0 are good, anything bigger, my next sail up is 6.6, is quite a no-no.

YES, I have sailed the 52 many times. 30 was the size for choppy situations with 5.0 up to 6.0. 32 was fine with 6.3 and 6.7. The board sits above chop ans you stay in full control. You don't loose any speed vs. 28. Fine with Tect GW or even better, C3 Venom or Sting. Never tried with the fury on the 52. I'm 87 kg.

Considering your weight, you can use 30 with 5.0 up to 6.0 and 32 with 6.0/6.3.

A friend of mine made design a slalom 50. A top board for 6.0 down to 4.9. No limit ! 28 was the good fin for this one !

You should directly ask to 151 what he thinks about his 52 and how he managed to keep pros behind him during the Defi. The guy is excellent anyway...

And even "top brands" need time on water to develop strong winds boards. And if the don't do that, they don't achieve anything consistent. Marketing is not enough...

And CA slalom boards are always getting better and better, year after year. Slowly, step by step, but always better. Because of the time spent on the water, not in a marketing office... And I'm sure the latest 53 or 54 is a way much better than the 09' 52.

So you do not, and still can't avoid to lecture about what to use with the board ... :shock:

thank you, really precious suggestion to use a 30 for sub 6.0 ... (I am being friendly sarcastic

)

But if you want to see a significant change in CA boards other check the 2016 line up, it looks like they are finally shortening their boards and going for a "compact outline". Join the mainstream! (there might be a reason why everybody else was there but them!). It took almost ten years but finally getting in the neighborhood with the addition of (you guessed) deep concaves on the deck and "turbo tab" (i.e. small cut outs supposedly providing "super smooth jibe").

Congrats CA for joining the 21st century

Vincent

Davide a écrit:

So you do not, and still can't avoid to lecture about what to use with the board ... :shock:

thank you, really precious suggestion to use a 30 for sub 6.0 ... (I am being friendly sarcastic

)

But if you want to see a significant change in CA boards other check the 2016 line up, it looks like they are finally shortening their boards and going for a "compact outline". Join the mainstream! (there might be a reason why everybody else was there but them!). It took almost ten years but finally getting in the neighborhood with the addition of (you guessed) deep concaves on the deck and "turbo tab" (i.e. small cut outs supposedly providing "super smooth jibe").

Congrats CA for joining the 21st century

OK, just for you... Just because there's no more serious windsurfers on the west coast, especially for slalom racing...

The interview of Pierre Moretti,

http://www.windmag.com/actu-itw-pierre- ... lieu-stars

"La 1 ère manche, je suis parti en 5.5 Vapor 2008 et Carbon Art 52 avec un aileron 30 Fight Club I fins. Bon départ, top 3 ou 2..."

No need to translate...

You don't need to apologize, you didn't know what you were talking about.

If you have any question on how to tune your equipment, you will always find an answer on this forum. It will help you to enjoy windsurfing and will prevent you from whining.

If you want to choose your equipment by only considering marketing BS, you can stick to "big" brands websites...

Gros test Carbon art 2009 + C3 fins

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